Comments on: Sadly, under the iceberg … http://www.undertheiceberg.com/2007/03/23/sadly-under-the-iceberg/ Sam Metcalf's blog about a new generation of leaders for the global church. Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:58:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Sam http://www.undertheiceberg.com/2007/03/23/sadly-under-the-iceberg/#comment-5460 Sam Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:43:54 +0000 http://www.undertheiceberg.com/2007/03/23/sadly-under-the-iceberg/#comment-5460 I agree, Tim, that this is actually a very positive statistic and probably misleading for me to include it with a list I label "sad." While hotly debated in missiological circles, the "insider movements" that these 14 million (and perhaps many more) represent may be remarkable indicators of how God is desirious of working his redemptive purposes outside of our imagination and even our pre-conceived boxes. I agree, Tim, that this is actually a very positive statistic and probably misleading for me to include it with a list I label “sad.”

While hotly debated in missiological circles, the “insider movements” that these 14 million (and perhaps many more) represent may be remarkable indicators of how God is desirious of working his redemptive purposes outside of our imagination and even our pre-conceived boxes.

]]> By: Tim Jeffries http://www.undertheiceberg.com/2007/03/23/sadly-under-the-iceberg/#comment-5400 Tim Jeffries Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:20:35 +0000 http://www.undertheiceberg.com/2007/03/23/sadly-under-the-iceberg/#comment-5400 14 million converted Hindus, buddhists, and muslims have opted to remain within those religions in order to witness for Christ as active believers in Jesus as Lord. This seems to be the only positive statistic in the lot. Maybe we need to get some western Christians to learn from those 14 million who are undergoing the challenging task of working out what it means to be in the world but not of it. 14 million converted Hindus, buddhists, and muslims have opted to remain within those religions in order to witness for Christ as active believers in Jesus as Lord.

This seems to be the only positive statistic in the lot. Maybe we need to get some western Christians to learn from those 14 million who are undergoing the challenging task of working out what it means to be in the world but not of it.

]]> By: Patrick http://www.undertheiceberg.com/2007/03/23/sadly-under-the-iceberg/#comment-5228 Patrick Thu, 29 Mar 2007 20:42:18 +0000 http://www.undertheiceberg.com/2007/03/23/sadly-under-the-iceberg/#comment-5228 "Some 250 of the 300 largest international Christian organizations regularly mislead the Christian public by publishing demonstrably incorrect or falsified progress statistics." Acts 5:1 But a man named Ananias , with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; 2 with his wife's knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 " Ananias ," Peter asked, "why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us but to God!" 5 Now when Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard of it. 6 The young men came and wrapped up his body, then carried him out and buried him. 7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter said to her, "Tell me whether you and your husband sold the land for such and such a price." And she said, "Yes, that was the price." 9 Then Peter said to her, "How is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out." 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and died. When the young men came in they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear seized the whole church and all who heard of these things. I think we need a great fear. Lying to the Holy Spirit may not result in death, but I bet it has an effect on a lot of the other statistics you note. “Some 250 of the 300 largest international Christian organizations regularly mislead the Christian public by publishing demonstrably incorrect or falsified progress statistics.”

Acts 5:1 But a man named Ananias , with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; 2 with his wife’s knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 ” Ananias ,” Peter asked, “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us but to God!”

5 Now when Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard of it. 6 The young men came and wrapped up his body, then carried him out and buried him.

7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you and your husband sold the land for such and such a price.” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.”

9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and died. When the young men came in they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear seized the whole church and all who heard of these things.

I think we need a great fear. Lying to the Holy Spirit may not result in death, but I bet it has an effect on a lot of the other statistics you note.

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